Interview by: Iori Miller
Background: Kelly began working for Evergreen Canoes at 919 Oxford St., in Toronto, during the 2000’s, installing gunwales on new hulls, and preparing them for sale. In 2005 Evergreen sold the retail portion of the building to Jeff Needham, and he turned it into The Complete Paddler. Kelly transitioned into managing the Complete Paddler at that time. Evergreen was still manufacturing at that point, and they were still producing boats and selling them in the store. In 2007, Kelly took over The Complete Paddler himself, but around the beginning of Covid Nova Craft became a partner in it too.
Iori: Okay. So, you were saying that Evergreen was already making their own canoes before they started making the Starburst model. Then they got the Starburst mould from Blue Hole, of Tennessee?
Kelly: Evergreen Canoes was already established when it picked up some of Blue Hole’s moulds. Evergreen was already producing boats out of composite materials, then they were making Starburst canoes by traveling to Tennessee to use Blue Hole’s moulds to make the shells and then bringing these back to Canada, and we were finishing them here. But all that’s already after Evergreen was established. So, it was just adding into their lineup.
Iori: So, when they began using Blue Hole moulds that’s when they started using Royalex?
Kelly: Correct.
Iori: And that’s when Evergreen started using the word Starburst?
Kelly: Yes, originally Blue Hole produced a wood trimmed canoe with the moulds and called it the Cumberland. Then they trimmed it differently, with vinyl, and called it the Starburst. So, when Evergreen bought the moulds they moved them to Quebec, from Sunbright, Tennessee, and kept the Starburst name.
Iori: When they went to Quebec, was it still an Evergreen factory?
Kelly: It was in an Evergreen factory, yes.
Iori: Then they were shipping some, or all, of the hulls to Toronto to be trimmed?
Kelly: Sometimes. Sometimes they would be trimmed there, depending on how busy we were in Toronto at the time. Yeah. Because we’d some pretty big dealers, like, Mountain Equipment Co-op.
Iori: Last fall, I went to Nova Craft’s factory in London. I was looking at their boats and thinking about buying one. Chris Rath, the owner, was showing me their process, and he actually showed me the original mould for the Evergreen Starburst 2.
Kelly: No, he has the original Blue Hole plug for the Sunburst 2, which is the shorter version of the Starburst. The Sunburst 2, it’s just over 14′, and it can be used as a solo tripping or a tandem play canoe. What’s similar on the market right now is the Esquif Pocket Canyon. So, the Pocket Canyon is similar to the Sunburst 2, and the Canyon is similar to the Starburst. What Chris has in his factory is the original plug for the Blue Hole’s Sunburst 2.
Iori: What exactly is a plug?
Kelly: You make a plug, and then you can make multiple moulds from a plug. Back in the day, you would make a plug out of wood, and it’d be finished perfectly smooth, and it would almost be solid wood, so it wouldn’t shift, it wouldn’t move. And then you put fibreglass on top of it to make a fibreglass mould of it. And then after, you take that fibreglass mould and make Rolex boats out of it.
Iori: So then, Esquif has their own plugs and moulds to produce each of their canoes?
Kelly: Multiple moulds, their production is pretty big.
Iori: I’ve had friends who have had Esquif Prospecteurs and Canyons, and they’ve actually sold them and looked for old Evergreens. They’ve begun trusting the old Royalex material over the new T-Formex. They say it’s better.
Kelly: That’s a hard thing to answer. I don’t believe that to be 100% true.
Iori: No?
Kelly: Some years, Royalex sheets were better than others. Some years the sheet’s coming from Royalex to all of the factories, whether it be Evergreen, Blue Hole, Mad River, or Esquif, for maybe, you know … there’s a couple of years where the sheets were softer. And then they would get harder again. They would change the recipe, so to speak. And the thickness varied … back then, you could order sheets with different thicknesses in different areas. So, you couldn’t compare an Esquif Prospecteur, a Mad River Prospector, to an Evergreen Prospector, because whoever ordered those sheets from Royalex could have ordered them with different specifications. So, each company could dial it in, whatever thicknesses you wanted, in whatever areas of the canoe you wanted.
Iori: That is a lot more complicated than I ever imagined.
Kelly: So, yes, if you wanted a really thick and solid stern, you could put that in. Obviously, it’d add weight, but also strength. Yet there were some years that the sheets were just terrible. And they’d delaminate and fall apart. Not every year was the same from Royalex. They weren’t very consistent over the long term. You got some sheets that were thicker than others, that were stiffer and more durable, but they were heavier. And some companies ordered those on purpose. So, with the new T-Formex material, it’s also dialed in. It’s exactly what Esquif wanted to it to be. Whether that’s lighter, and, you know, less durable, it depends on the model. I think that they’re choosing what they put in each model; the Esquif Prospecteur doesn’t have to be as bomb proof as the Esquif canyon, maybe. I don’t know. I can’t really speak to this because that would be the owner of Esquif that you need to speak with. But that’s what I’d be guessing, because that’s what we used to do for Evergreen, and that’s what Blue Hole used to do.
Iori: I realize my experience and opinion is totally anecdotal. I had a friend who had a Pocket Canyon, and he smashed in the front on what he thought was a relatively simple collision. Later he switched to the 16.5′ Canyon and while paddling that down the Credit River on an early spring run, he got, like, a foot and a half slit open up on the bottom of his boat! Maybe due to some sharp metal in the river? Well, he got it repaired and sold it as soon as he could. Afterward he found himself an old Evergreen Starburst, which he’s still paddling to this day.
Kelly: I think he just got unlucky and hit something sharp, because… if it’s Royalex or T-Formex, it’s still just a plastic layup. All plastic is going to cut the same way. So, I don’t think one’s more durable than the other. I think in a lot of people’s heads that it is. They’ve gotten unlucky by damaging maybe a newer boat; look for an older one, and they might have the same luck with that, but, if they were in the exact same situation I think the exact same thing would happen to either boat.
Iori: With Nova Craft’s Moisie, and Esquif ‘s Canyon, why aren’t more companies trying to have a Starburst copy? Why not Swift, or Mad River, or some of the other American companies?
Kelly: The closest thing that Swift had was the Dumoine. They used to make that out of Royalex, but it wasn’t as deep. No, it wasn’t the same boat at all, but if they were going to get something close to a Starburst, that would have been it. A lot of whitewater tripping people, if they didn’t know about the Starburst, swore by the Dumoine. Until they tried the Starburst, and then they converted because it was drier. Safer. Deeper.
Iori: I remember someone saying, the Dumoine is known to be a ‘wet’ whitewater boat.
Kelly: Yeah, it’s cut shallow. If they’d put, like, four more inches into it, it would have been… a better boat, much better boat. And that was when Swift, though, could still get Royalex sheets.
Iori: Kelly just a few more questions. If someone walks in your store today, here, and says, to you, “what’s the best white-water tripping boat I can buy today?” What would you say?
Kelly: The Esquif Canyon.
Iori: In terms of price, durability, and everything?
Kelly: There’d be a couple of decent canoes, but for T-Formex it’s obviously the only one on the market. But there’s good composites that are out there as well. Nova Craft are producing a Moisie of Tough Stuff, Expedition Kevlar. (Its not Kevlar) it is a blend of basalt and
Innegra. A whitewater grade composite. And you can wrap it, and it’ll bounce back into a canoe shape. Also, Andy Convery of Echo Paddles and Boats is making his own Starburst copy he calls the Starlight.
Iori: Really? You can inflict serious damage and still paddle these composites out?
Kelly: You will need to do some repair when you get out, but you can paddle it out of a wilderness area. And that was the whole point of Royalex. Like, it could rebound, and you could paddle it out. You would still possibly need to fix a Royalex boat afterward.
Iori: I recently paddled in a group with someone with a new Echo. I said to him, “It’s my understanding that this is a copy of the Starburst?” He replied, “Well, from what I know,” and I think he’s repeating the guy who builds those boats, “that to make the Starlite’s mould he literally took a Starburst and copied it. Like, literally laid fibreglass over a Starburst hull.”
Kelly: So, your only light-weight alternative is Andy’s boat, or a Nova Craft’s Moisie.
Iori: Any idea what an Echo costs?
Kelly: Like Andy Conbury’s Starlight?
Iori: Yes.
Kelly: He has the Starlight, and the Ochoee. I have no idea what the prices are. But, you know, they’re comparable to any composite.
Iori: Kelly, one last question. If the Evergreen Starburst was so good, and such a great Canadian success story, why did Evergreen go under when Royalex was still available then? I’ve heard that MEC successfully sold a lot of their boats. You were there. What went south?
Kelly: It was Mountain Equipment Co-op dropping them.
Iori: Really?
Kelly: Yeah.
Iori: I could print that specifically?
Kelly: It’s my opinion … you can print it.